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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 14, 2011 10:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: oh man

Here is a head who likes the twisted, angular, but beautiful VotC. It should have been stretched out longer. Here is the best. What's yours?

http://www.archive.org/details/gd91-08-16.sbd.braverman.6676.sbeok.shnf

Hey CH, one of yours 'friends' is breakin' the law in the reviews section. Oh my.

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Poster: Reade Date: Jun 14, 2011 4:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: oh man

http://www.archive.org/details/gd93-05-26.schoeps.georges.15384.sbeok.flacf

My favorite. Jerry's ability to find something to play in anything is what this song is about for me.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 15, 2011 9:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: oh man

Vince was actually pleasing. They ought to have done more VotC > FotM. A double dose of darkness. Post lyrics is excellent. I may have to buy this. Thanks!

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Poster: Reade Date: Jun 15, 2011 11:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: oh man

You're welcome.
The Victim>Crazy Fingers>Playin from this date was featured a long time ago on the GDH (#248) and it just knocked me out then. And now.
A pre-drums trifecta in my book.

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Poster: bkidwell Date: Jun 14, 2011 10:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: oh man

There are quite a few nice Victims in addition to the fine example you give - 9/10/90 is a Victim->Scarlet->Fire I am fond of, and the 7/12/90 Box->Victim->Foolish from the RFK show with Dark Star emphasizes the song's "dark glamour" well.

I agree they never did everything they could have with the song - there's no reason it couldn't have stretched out even more and established another whole new large area of improv, similar to how the core improv riffs of ye olde jamme tunes became more than specific songs, but a whole set of textural and rhythmic concepts.

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Jun 14, 2011 1:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: oh man

You bring up some interesting points. Here's my take. I was never a fan of Victim probably because I didn't know what to do with it. Couldn't dance to it, it really doesn't flow, ect. Now when you pair Victim with a segue with Fire or say Eyes from Hampton 89 you definitely have my interest. However, if I'm at a stadium show and they open the set with Victim and then segue into Lazy River Road that has to let the air out of your tires, especially after a 6 song first set. Then Samba...check please.

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Poster: bkidwell Date: Jun 14, 2011 3:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: oh man

Yeah, I don't have much good to say about this particular show, and the Vince tunes are definitely not what you want to center a 2nd set around.

Victim is definitely not a song you can really dance to in any sensible way, I certainly appreciate that everything about it is really the antithesis of the "dancing in the sunshine" aspect of the band. At the same time, the dissonant, challenging aspect of the band goes back a long way. In some ways Victim is a fascinating attempt to bring feedback/space type musical ideas into an actual song.

I understand why a lot of people felt the "energy" of a song like Victim was off (certainly some people took the "patience runs out on the junkie" line as too applicable) but I've always been a fan of the darker sides of the band - the Dark Stars that become a scary twisted forest with mysterious shapes moving just out sight.

I also didn't intend my post to sound like I was being negative towards your statements, I agree that 6/14/94 is one of the shows in summer 94 where things were just kind of lifeless sounding in a lot of places.

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Jun 14, 2011 4:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: oh man

Not at all my man. Good post. If you can find them I think there are 2 threads about Victim. I remember starting one asking if they knew of a version that clocked in over 10 mins. Also there is another that documents the history of the song seen through one of the writers, Gerrit Graham. Specifically how Barlow and Mydland were not happy about singing a song about junkies when Jerry was on stage.

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Jun 14, 2011 5:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: oh man

I always like Victim . I though It brought an aggressive darkness, that was rare in the band's later repertoire . Only the Other One seems to seemed to have some of this .
And as for the age thing, most Pop/Rock folks are better when they are younger, and most Classical musicians get BETTER when they get older ( of course this varies per artist , and it depends HOW old ).